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CumInCAD is a Cumulative Index about publications in Computer Aided Architectural Design
supported by the sibling associations ACADIA, CAADRIA, eCAADe, SIGraDi, ASCAAD and CAAD futures

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_id	avocaad_2001_02
id	avocaad_2001_02
authors	Cheng-Yuan Lin, Yu-Tung Liu
year	2001
title	A digital Procedure of Building Construction: A practical project
source	AVOCAAD - ADDED VALUE OF COMPUTER AIDED ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, Nys Koenraad, Provoost Tom, Verbeke Johan, Verleye Johan (Eds.), (2001) Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst - Departement Architectuur Sint-Lucas, Campus Brussel, ISBN 80-76101-05-1
summary	In earlier times in which computers have not yet been developed well, there has been some researches regarding representation using conventional media (Gombrich, 1960; Arnheim, 1970). For ancient architects, the design process was described abstractly by text (Hewitt, 1985; Cable, 1983); the process evolved from unselfconscious to conscious ways (Alexander, 1964). Till the appearance of 2D drawings, these drawings could only express abstract visual thinking and visually conceptualized vocabulary (Goldschmidt, 1999). Then with the massive use of physical models in the Renaissance, the form and space of architecture was given better precision (Millon, 1994). Researches continued their attempts to identify the nature of different design tools (Eastman and Fereshe, 1994). Simon (1981) figured out that human increasingly relies on other specialists, computational agents, and materials referred to augment their cognitive abilities. This discourse was verified by recent research on conception of design and the expression using digital technologies (McCullough, 1996; Perez-Gomez and Pelletier, 1997). While other design tools did not change as much as representation (Panofsky, 1991; Koch, 1997), the involvement of computers in conventional architecture design arouses a new design thinking of digital architecture (Liu, 1996; Krawczyk, 1997; Murray, 1997; Wertheim, 1999). The notion of the link between ideas and media is emphasized throughout various fields, such as architectural education (Radford, 2000), Internet, and restoration of historical architecture (Potier et al., 2000). Information technology is also an important tool for civil engineering projects (Choi and Ibbs, 1989). Compared with conventional design media, computers avoid some errors in the process (Zaera, 1997). However, most of the application of computers to construction is restricted to simulations in building process (Halpin, 1990). It is worth studying how to employ computer technology meaningfully to bring significant changes to concept stage during the process of building construction (Madazo, 2000; Dave, 2000) and communication (Haymaker, 2000).In architectural design, concept design was achieved through drawings and models (Mitchell, 1997), while the working drawings and even shop drawings were brewed and communicated through drawings only. However, the most effective method of shaping building elements is to build models by computer (Madrazo, 1999). With the trend of 3D visualization (Johnson and Clayton, 1998) and the difference of designing between the physical environment and virtual environment (Maher et al. 2000), we intend to study the possibilities of using digital models, in addition to drawings, as a critical media in the conceptual stage of building construction process in the near future (just as the critical role that physical models played in early design process in the Renaissance). This research is combined with two practical building projects, following the progress of construction by using digital models and animations to simulate the structural layouts of the projects. We also tried to solve the complicated and even conflicting problems in the detail and piping design process through an easily accessible and precise interface. An attempt was made to delineate the hierarchy of the elements in a single structural and constructional system, and the corresponding relations among the systems. Since building construction is often complicated and even conflicting, precision needed to complete the projects can not be based merely on 2D drawings with some imagination. The purpose of this paper is to describe all the related elements according to precision and correctness, to discuss every possibility of different thinking in design of electric-mechanical engineering, to receive feedback from the construction projects in the real world, and to compare the digital models with conventional drawings.Through the application of this research, the subtle relations between the conventional drawings and digital models can be used in the area of building construction. Moreover, a theoretical model and standard process is proposed by using conventional drawings, digital models and physical buildings. By introducing the intervention of digital media in design process of working drawings and shop drawings, there is an opportune chance to use the digital media as a prominent design tool. This study extends the use of digital model and animation from design process to construction process. However, the entire construction process involves various details and exceptions, which are not discussed in this paper. These limitations should be explored in future studies.
series	AVOCAAD
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:48

_id	avocaad_2001_19
id	avocaad_2001_19
authors	Shen-Kai Tang, Yu-Tung Liu, Yu-Sheng Chung, Chi-Seng Chung
year	2001
title	The visual harmony between new and old materials in the restoration of historical architecture: A study of computer simulation
source	AVOCAAD - ADDED VALUE OF COMPUTER AIDED ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, Nys Koenraad, Provoost Tom, Verbeke Johan, Verleye Johan (Eds.), (2001) Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst - Departement Architectuur Sint-Lucas, Campus Brussel, ISBN 80-76101-05-1
summary	In the research of historical architecture restoration, scholars respectively focus on the field of architectural context and architectural archeology (Shi, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1995; Fu, 1995, 1997; Chiu, 2000) or on architecture construction and the procedure of restoration (Shi, 1988, 1989; Chiu, 1990). How to choose materials and cope with their durability becomes an important issue in the restoration of historical architecture (Dasser, 1990; Wang, 1998).In the related research of the usage and durability of materials, some scholars deem that, instead of continuing the traditional ways that last for hundreds of years (that is to replace new materials with old ones), it might be better to keep the original materials (Dasser, 1990). However, unavoidably, some of the originals are much worn. Thus we have to first establish the standard of eliminating components, and secondly to replace identical or similar materials with the old components (Lee, 1990). After accomplishing the restoration, we often unexpectedly find out that the renewed historical building is too new that the sense of history is eliminated (Dasser, 1990; Fu, 1997). Actually this is the important factor that determines the accomplishment of restoration. In the past, some scholars find out that the contrast and conflict between new and old materials are contributed to the different time of manufacture and different coating, such as antiseptic, pattern, etc., which result in the discrepancy of the sense of visual perception (Lee, 1990; Fu, 1997; Dasser, 1990).In recent years, a number of researches and practice of computer technology have been done in the field of architectural design. We are able to proceed design communication more exactly by the application of some systematic softwares, such as image processing, computer graphic, computer modeling/rendering, animation, multimedia, virtual reality and so on (Lawson, 1995; Liu, 1996). The application of computer technology to the research of the preservation of historical architecture is comparatively late. Continually some researchers explore the procedure of restoration by computer simulation technology (Potier, 2000), or establish digital database of the investigation of historical architecture (Sasada, 2000; Wang, 1998). How to choose materials by the technology of computer simulation influences the sense of visual perception. Liu (2000) has a more complete result on visual impact analysis and assessment (VIAA) about the research of urban design projection. The main subjects of this research paper focuses on whether the technology of computer simulation can extenuate the conflict between new and old materials that imposed on visual perception.The objective of this paper is to propose a standard method of visual harmony effects for materials in historical architecture (taking the Gigi Train Station destroyed by the earthquake in last September as the operating example).There are five steps in this research: 1.Categorize the materials of historical architecture and establish the information in digital database. 2.Get new materials of historical architecture and establish the information in digital database. 3.According to the mixing amount of new and old materials, determinate their proportion of the building; mixing new and old materials in a certain way. 4.Assign the mixed materials to the computer model and proceed the simulation of lighting. 5.Make experts and the citizens to evaluate the accomplished computer model in order to propose the expected standard method.According to the experiment mentioned above, we first address a procedure of material simulation of the historical architecture restoration and then offer some suggestions of how to mix new and old materials.By this procedure of simulation, we offer a better view to control the restoration of historical architecture. And, the discrepancy and discordance by new and old materials can be released. Moreover, we thus avoid to reconstructing ¡§too new¡¨ historical architecture.
series	AVOCAAD
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:48

_id	avocaad_2001_20
id	avocaad_2001_20
authors	Shen-Kai Tang
year	2001
title	Toward a procedure of computer simulation in the restoration of historical architecture
source	AVOCAAD - ADDED VALUE OF COMPUTER AIDED ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, Nys Koenraad, Provoost Tom, Verbeke Johan, Verleye Johan (Eds.), (2001) Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst - Departement Architectuur Sint-Lucas, Campus Brussel, ISBN 80-76101-05-1
summary	In the field of architectural design, “visualization¨ generally refers to some media, communicating and representing the idea of designers, such as ordinary drafts, maps, perspectives, photos and physical models, etc. (Rahman, 1992; Susan, 2000). The main reason why we adopt visualization is that it enables us to understand clearly and to control complicated procedures (Gombrich, 1990). Secondly, the way we get design knowledge is more from the published visualized images and less from personal experiences (Evans, 1989). Thus the importance of the representation of visualization is manifested.Due to the developments of computer technology in recent years, various computer aided design system are invented and used in a great amount, such as image processing, computer graphic, computer modeling/rendering, animation, multimedia, virtual reality and collaboration, etc. (Lawson, 1995; Liu, 1996). The conventional media are greatly replaced by computer media, and the visualization is further brought into the computerized stage. The procedure of visual impact analysis and assessment (VIAA), addressed by Rahman (1992), is renewed and amended for the intervention of computer (Liu, 2000). Based on the procedures above, a great amount of applied researches are proceeded. Therefore it is evident that the computer visualization is helpful to the discussion and evaluation during the design process (Hall, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998; Liu, 1997; Sasada, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1997, 1998). In addition to the process of architectural design, the computer visualization is also applied to the subject of construction, which is repeatedly amended and corrected by the images of computer simulation (Liu, 2000). Potier (2000) probes into the contextual research and restoration of historical architecture by the technology of computer simulation before the practical restoration is constructed. In this way he established a communicative mode among archeologists, architects via computer media.In the research of restoration and preservation of historical architecture in Taiwan, many scholars have been devoted into the studies of historical contextual criticism (Shi, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1995; Fu, 1995, 1997; Chiu, 2000). Clues that accompany the historical contextual criticism (such as oral information, writings, photographs, pictures, etc.) help to explore the construction and the procedure of restoration (Hung, 1995), and serve as an aid to the studies of the usage and durability of the materials in the restoration of historical architecture (Dasser, 1990; Wang, 1998). Many clues are lost, because historical architecture is often age-old (Hung, 1995). Under the circumstance, restoration of historical architecture can only be proceeded by restricted pictures, written data and oral information (Shi, 1989). Therefore, computer simulation is employed by scholars to simulate the condition of historical architecture with restricted information after restoration (Potier, 2000). Yet this is only the early stage of computer-aid restoration. The focus of the paper aims at exploring that whether visual simulation of computer can help to investigate the practice of restoration and the estimation and evaluation after restoration.By exploring the restoration of historical architecture (taking the Gigi Train Station destroyed by the earthquake in last September as the operating example), this study aims to establish a complete work on computer visualization, including the concept of restoration, the practice of restoration, and the estimation and evaluation of restoration.This research is to simulate the process of restoration by computer simulation based on visualized media (restricted pictures, restricted written data and restricted oral information) and the specialized experience of historical architects (Potier, 2000). During the process of practicing, communicates with craftsmen repeatedly with some simulated alternatives, and makes the result as the foundation of evaluating and adjusting the simulating process and outcome. In this way we address a suitable and complete process of computer visualization for historical architecture.The significance of this paper is that we are able to control every detail more exactly, and then prevent possible problems during the process of restoration of historical architecture.
series	AVOCAAD
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:48

_id	6642
authors	Verbeke, Johan and Provoost, Tom
year	1998
title	AVOCAAD, the Scheme
doi	https://doi.org/10.52842/conf.ecaade.1998.239
source	Computerised Craftsmanship [eCAADe Conference Proceedings] Paris (France) 24-26 September 1998, pp. 239-252
summary	The Leonardo da Vinci pilot project AVOCAAD (Added Value of Computer Aided Architectural Design) aims to innovate the use of computers in architecture. Hereto, new course materials and structures are developed. Focus is on new unusual ways to use software in Architecture. In this paper, we first describe the context using the general AVOCAAD statement. In order to give structure to the developed materials, a scheme was developed. This AVOCAAD scheme is given and described. Some examples of concrete course materials are given in the next section. In order to innovate in the architectural curriculum as well as in design offices, these materials will be available through the Internet. Hereto, a web-structure for the exercises was developed. Some experience and conclusions are given in the final section.
series	eCAADe
email
more	http://www.paris-valdemarne.archi.fr/archive/ecaade98/html/23verbeke/index.htm
last changed	2022/06/07 07:58

_id	avocaad_2001_17
id	avocaad_2001_17
authors	Ying-Hsiu Huang, Yu-Tung Liu, Cheng-Yuan Lin, Yi-Ting Cheng, Yu-Chen Chiu
year	2001
title	The comparison of animation, virtual reality, and scenario scripting in design process
source	AVOCAAD - ADDED VALUE OF COMPUTER AIDED ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, Nys Koenraad, Provoost Tom, Verbeke Johan, Verleye Johan (Eds.), (2001) Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst - Departement Architectuur Sint-Lucas, Campus Brussel, ISBN 80-76101-05-1
summary	Design media is a fundamental tool, which can incubate concrete ideas from ambiguous concepts. Evolved from freehand sketches, physical models to computerized drafting, modeling (Dave, 2000), animations (Woo, et al., 1999), and virtual reality (Chiu, 1999; Klercker, 1999; Emdanat, 1999), different media are used to communicate to designers or users with different conceptual levels¡@during the design process. Extensively employed in design process, physical models help designers in managing forms and spaces more precisely and more freely (Millon, 1994; Liu, 1996).Computerized drafting, models, animations, and VR have gradually replaced conventional media, freehand sketches and physical models. Diversely used in the design process, computerized media allow designers to handle more divergent levels of space than conventional media do. The rapid emergence of computers in design process has ushered in efforts to the visual impact of this media, particularly (Rahman, 1992). He also emphasized the use of computerized media: modeling and animations. Moreover, based on Rahman's study, Bai and Liu (1998) applied a new design media¡Xvirtual reality, to the design process. In doing so, they proposed an evaluation process to examine the visual impact of this new media in the design process. That same investigation pointed towards the facilitative role of the computerized media in enhancing topical comprehension, concept realization, and development of ideas.Computer technology fosters the growth of emerging media. A new computerized media, scenario scripting (Sasada, 2000; Jozen, 2000), markedly enhances computer animations and, in doing so, positively impacts design processes. For the three latest media, i.e., computerized animation, virtual reality, and scenario scripting, the following question arises: What role does visual impact play in different design phases of these media. Moreover, what is the origin of such an impact? Furthermore, what are the similarities and variances of computing techniques, principles of interaction, and practical applications among these computerized media?This study investigates the similarities and variances among computing techniques, interacting principles, and their applications in the above three media. Different computerized media in the design process are also adopted to explore related phenomenon by using these three media in two projects. First, a renewal planning project of the old district of Hsinchu City is inspected, in which animations and scenario scripting are used. Second, the renewal project is compared with a progressive design project for the Hsinchu Digital Museum, as designed by Peter Eisenman. Finally, similarity and variance among these computerized media are discussed.This study also examines the visual impact of these three computerized media in the design process. In computerized animation, although other designers can realize the spatial concept in design, users cannot fully comprehend the concept. On the other hand, other media such as virtual reality and scenario scripting enable users to more directly comprehend what the designer's presentation.Future studies should more closely examine how these three media impact the design process. This study not only provides further insight into the fundamental characteristics of the three computerized media discussed herein, but also enables designers to adopt different media in the design stages. Both designers and users can more fully understand design-related concepts.
series	AVOCAAD
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:48

_id	avocaad_2001_09
id	avocaad_2001_09
authors	Yu-Tung Liu, Yung-Ching Yeh, Sheng-Cheng Shih
year	2001
title	Digital Architecture in CAD studio and Internet-based competition
source	AVOCAAD - ADDED VALUE OF COMPUTER AIDED ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, Nys Koenraad, Provoost Tom, Verbeke Johan, Verleye Johan (Eds.), (2001) Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst - Departement Architectuur Sint-Lucas, Campus Brussel, ISBN 80-76101-05-1
summary	Architectural design has been changing because of the vast and creative use of computer in different ways. From the viewpoint of designing itself, computer has been used as drawing tools in the latter phase of design (Mitchell 1977; Coyne et al. 1990), presentation and simulation tools in the middle phase (Liu and Bai 2000), and even critical media which triggers creative thinking in the very early phase (Maher et al. 2000; Liu 1999; Won 1999). All the various roles that computer can play have been adopted in a number of professional design corporations and so-called computer-aided design (CAD) studio in schools worldwide (Kvan 1997, 2000; Cheng 1998). The processes and outcomes of design have been continuously developing to capture the movement of the computer age. However, from the viewpoint of social-cultural theories of architecture, the evolvement of design cannot be achieved solely by designers or design processes. Any new idea of design can be accepted socially, culturally and historically only under one condition: The design outcomes could be reviewed and appreciated by critics in the field at the time of its production (Csikszentmihalyi 1986, 1988; Schon and Wiggins 1992; Liu 2000). In other words, aspects of design production (by designers in different design processes) are as critical as those of design appreciation (by critics in different review processes) in the observation of the future trends of architecture.Nevertheless, in the field of architectural design with computer and Internet, that is, so-called computer-aided design computer-mediated design, or internet-based design, most existing studies pay more attentions to producing design in design processes as mentioned above. Relatively few studies focus on how critics act and how they interact with designers in the review processes. Therefore, this study intends to investigate some evolving phenomena of the interaction between design production and appreciation in the environment of computer and Internet.This paper takes a CAD studio and an Internet-based competition as examples. The CAD studio includes 7 master's students and 2 critics, all from the same countries. The Internet-based competition, held in year 2000, includes 206 designers from 43 counties and 26 critics from 11 countries. 3 students and the 2 critics in the CAD studio are the competition participating designers and critics respectively. The methodological steps are as follows: 1. A qualitative analysis: observation and interview of the 3 participants and 2 reviewers who join both the CAD studio and the competition. The 4 analytical criteria are the kinds of presenting media, the kinds of supportive media (such as verbal and gesture/facial data), stages of the review processes, and interaction between the designer and critics. The behavioral data are acquired by recording the design presentation and dialogue within 3 months. 2. A quantitative analysis: statistical analysis of the detailed reviewing data in the CAD studio and the competition. The four 4 analytical factors are the reviewing time, the number of reviewing of the same project, the comparison between different projects, and grades/comments. 3. Both the qualitative and quantitative data are cross analyzed and discussed, based on the theories of design thinking, design production/appreciation, and the appreciative system (Goodman 1978, 1984).The result of this study indicates that the interaction between design production and appreciation during the review processes could differ significantly. The review processes could be either linear or cyclic due to the influences from the kinds of media, the environmental discrepancies between studio and Internet, as well as cognitive thinking/memory capacity. The design production and appreciation seem to be more linear in CAD studio whereas more cyclic in the Internet environment. This distinction coincides with the complementary observations of designing as a linear process (Jones 1970; Simon 1981) or a cyclic movement (Schon and Wiggins 1992). Some phenomena during the two processes are also illustrated in detail in this paper.This study is merely a starting point of the research in design production and appreciation in the computer and network age. The future direction of investigation is to establish a theoretical model for the interaction between design production and appreciation based on current findings. The model is expected to conduct using revised protocol analysis and interviews. The other future research is to explore how design computing creativity emerge from the process of producing and appreciating.
series	AVOCAAD
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:48

_id	avocaad_2001_16
id	avocaad_2001_16
authors	Yu-Ying Chang, Yu-Tung Liu, Chien-Hui Wong
year	2001
title	Some Phenomena of Spatial Characteristics of Cyberspace
source	AVOCAAD - ADDED VALUE OF COMPUTER AIDED ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, Nys Koenraad, Provoost Tom, Verbeke Johan, Verleye Johan (Eds.), (2001) Hogeschool voor Wetenschap en Kunst - Departement Architectuur Sint-Lucas, Campus Brussel, ISBN 80-76101-05-1
summary	"Space," which has long been an important concept in architecture (Bloomer & Moore, 1977; Mitchell, 1995, 1999), has attracted interest of researchers from various academic disciplines in recent years (Agnew, 1993; Benko & Strohmayer, 1996; Chang, 1999; Foucault, 1982; Gould, 1998). Researchers from disciplines such as anthropology, geography, sociology, philosophy, and linguistics regard it as the basis of the discussion of various theories in social sciences and humanities (Chen, 1999). On the other hand, since the invention of Internet, Internet users have been experiencing a new and magic "world." According to the definitions in traditional architecture theories, "space" is generated whenever people define a finite void by some physical elements (Zevi, 1985). However, although Internet is a virtual, immense, invisible and intangible world, navigating in it, we can still sense the very presence of ourselves and others in a wonderland. This sense could be testified by our naming of Internet as Cyberspace -- an exotic kind of space. Therefore, as people nowadays rely more and more on the Internet in their daily life, and as more and more architectural scholars and designers begin to invest their efforts in the design of virtual places online (e.g., Maher, 1999; Li & Maher, 2000), we cannot help but ask whether there are indeed sensible spaces in Internet. And if yes, these spaces exist in terms of what forms and created by what ways?To join the current interdisciplinary discussion on the issue of space, and to obtain new definition as well as insightful understanding of "space", this study explores the spatial phenomena in Internet. We hope that our findings would ultimately be also useful for contemporary architectural designers and scholars in their designs in the real world.As a preliminary exploration, the main objective of this study is to discover the elements involved in the creation/construction of Internet spaces and to examine the relationship between human participants and Internet spaces. In addition, this study also attempts to investigate whether participants from different academic disciplines define or experience Internet spaces in different ways, and to find what spatial elements of Internet they emphasize the most.In order to achieve a more comprehensive understanding of the spatial phenomena in Internet and to overcome the subjectivity of the members of the research team, the research design of this study was divided into two stages. At the first stage, we conducted literature review to study existing theories of space (which are based on observations and investigations of the physical world). At the second stage of this study, we recruited 8 Internet regular users to approach this topic from different point of views, and to see whether people with different academic training would define and experience Internet spaces differently.The results of this study reveal that the relationship between human participants and Internet spaces is different from that between human participants and physical spaces. In the physical world, physical elements of space must be established first; it then begins to be regarded as a place after interaction between/among human participants or interaction between human participants and the physical environment. In contrast, in Internet, a sense of place is first created through human interactions (or activities), Internet participants then begin to sense the existence of a space. Therefore, it seems that, among the many spatial elements of Internet we found, "interaction/reciprocity" Ñ either between/among human participants or between human participants and the computer interface Ð seems to be the most crucial element.In addition, another interesting result of this study is that verbal (linguistic) elements could provoke a sense of space in a degree higher than 2D visual representation and no less than 3D visual simulations. Nevertheless, verbal and 3D visual elements seem to work in different ways in terms of cognitive behaviors: Verbal elements provoke visual imagery and other sensory perceptions by "imagining" and then excite personal experiences of space; visual elements, on the other hand, provoke and excite visual experiences of space directly by "mapping".Finally, it was found that participants with different academic training did experience and define space differently. For example, when experiencing and analyzing Internet spaces, architecture designers, the creators of the physical world, emphasize the design of circulation and orientation, while participants with linguistics training focus more on subtle language usage. Visual designers tend to analyze the graphical elements of virtual spaces based on traditional painting theories; industrial designers, on the other hand, tend to treat these spaces as industrial products, emphasizing concept of user-center and the control of the computer interface.The findings of this study seem to add new information to our understanding of virtual space. It would be interesting for future studies to investigate how this information influences architectural designers in their real-world practices in this digital age. In addition, to obtain a fuller picture of Internet space, further research is needed to study the same issue by examining more Internet participants who have no formal linguistics and graphical training.
series	AVOCAAD
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:48

_id	edb2
authors	Verbeke, Johan
year	1998
title	GOING FROM CLASSICAL EXERCISES TOWARDS DESIGN EXERCISES USING COMPUTERS
source	Cyber-Real Design [Conference Proceedings / ISBN 83-905377-2-9] Bialystock (Poland), 23-25 April 1998, pp. 227-233
summary	In this paper we give some ideas on how to use the computer in exploration exercises in Architectural education. Existing exercises can be translated, changed and adopted towards exercises suitable to explain students the benefits (added values!) of using computers during their design process. The first results indicate a great enthusiasm of the students.
keywords	Confrontation, Exploration, Creativity, CAAD, AVOCAAD
series	plCAD
type	normal paper
email
last changed	2005/09/09 10:47

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